'I Have Been Sacrificing'

What is the state of the economy?

The economy is not too bad, not too good. First, we lost tourism, which is now revitalizing. Second, there was the suspension of some assistance from America and credit from the IMF. If the IMF returns, it will be with pleasure because they will see everything agreed to has already been implemented. We would be glad to receive assistance from the IMF. However we have also prepared ourselves to live without the IMF. Regarding foreign investment, we have received more investment applications than before the [July] event. This is a surprise. We are also very satisfied with the increase in revenues from taxation.

As far as agriculture is concerned, we can say the harvest will not be bad. We expect that some areas could [produce] a rice surplus of up to 300,000 tons, but there will [also] be areas where there is shortage of rice.

Will you hold elections May 23, 1998, as scheduled?

We should not retreat from that. We have to focus all our attention to achieve that.

Before July you said that next term you would like to be prime minister of a coalition government.

I have no change in these plans. I still plan to have five deputy prime ministers.

What progress have you made toward reducing violence?

I feel it is good progress in which we can take pride. Not many people believed we could put an end to [illegal] checkpoints, but we have. We hope the environment for the election of 1998 will be better than the last one [in 1993]. We have been making the laws for the election, setting up the election committee with an independent nature, and we are [creating] an atmosphere of neutrality and security. During this time I will be the U.N. So people will not see Hun Sen joining the electoral campaign, because I will be controlling the administration and the armed forces, making sure that they are neutral and provide the same service to all political parties.

If any violence happens, it would be Hun Sen who would first be accused. I have been sacrificing everything for the survival of our people. We should now be determined to set up a system of liberal democratic pluralism with an atmosphere of non-violence. This would be the basis not only for 1998 but for the future in Cambodia. My responsibility will be bigger than it was in 1993.

What about disarmament?

Before July, Phnom Penh could almost have been turned into a military camp. But now you see only light weapons with the competent authorities who are on duty. According to our plan, we will take back about 40,000 weapons from the militia. We are also collecting illegal weapons. I feel that we will not take back less than 100,000 weapons before the election. About one third of the weapons collected will be destroyed.

Is Prince Norodom Ranariddh going to be tried in absentia?

It is all the work of the court of law. I think they will hold a trial in absentia. The court is entitled to do that. Through the TV and radio, we learned there was a warrant for the arrest of Ranariddh.

When is the trial expected?

I am not sure. I am also seeking clarification from the Ministry of Justice. According to one of the local newspapers, the judge responsible for the investigation has completed his inquiry. So he will hand all the files to the prosecutor.

So a trial could begin soon?

I think it will not take long.

If Ranariddh is found guilty, would you favor amnesty?

I will support the amnesty provided to him if King Sihanouk so desires. Even though Ranariddh and I are now in such a situation, and there might be some different ideas expressed through the newspapers or through TV, we have never been in conflict with each other face to face or in telephone conversations. On the contrary, we have good relations. I do not consider Ranariddh my enemy. If Ranariddh considers me his enemy, that is his problem. My real enemies are the Khmer Rouge and the people's poverty.

Why didn't you accept the King's offer to mediate?

If Ranariddh, who committed such crimes, is not tried but turns to talks, this would set a precedent. It is risky not to bring to trial people who commit mistakes. Next time something happens I will sit in the house and just wait for talks. This would not be Cambodia in a state of law. How many coups were there in Thailand from 1939 to 1991? If you win there, you have power. If you lose, you can still live as a normal person. I don't want to set such a precedent in Cambodia.

The second thing which is risky is the talk about ceasefire. I would like to ask: a ceasefire with whom? Ranariddh himself declared that all the Khmer Rouge are integrated into the forces under Ranariddh's control.

Among the Funcinpec exiles, whose safe return will you personally guarantee?

In general, we could provide such a guarantee to all. We are now encouraging them to return. One deputy prime minister, the minister of agriculture and the chairman of a committee in the National Assembly have returned. We are using the channel of the U.N. secretary-general to bring all these people back. We also have other channels to quietly tell them to come back.

What about resistance leaders?

[Funcinpec generals] Serey Kosal and Nhiek Bun Chhay are not members of the National Assembly. They are leaders of terrorism, and their cases are in the court at the moment.

Will former Khmer Rouge leader Ieng Sary play a political role?

He has stressed to me that he will not form any political party. He has said that he is under the government, and that all the forces which have been integrated are also under the government.

If you can catch Pol Pot and his lieutenants, will you put them on trial?

I feel we should bring them all to justice. I think we should have an international court to try these people.

Would members of your Cambodian People's Party like to exert more control over you?

It is not necessary for the CPP to seek a way to control Hun Sen. I have not done anything outside CPP political lines. Frankly speaking, the CPP considers me a think tank. We can say that the ideas, the opinions of Hun Sen mostly are acceptable to the CPP. In times of danger, they even provide more support for me to take action to contain the Khmer Rouge and the extremists.

Are there human rights problems in Cambodia?

There are two reports by [U.N. special representative] Thomas Hammarberg. One was after the events of July. We accepted that report without any comment and used it as the basis for investigation. But there is another report in which he seems to be always working in the darkness. Even though there is light from the moon, he never mentioned such a light. So we consider that this report is beyond reality. We are not saying there is no human rights problem in Cambodia. It's true that there is a problem of human rights in Cambodia, and it is also true that there's a problem of human rights in many countries. If they see everything as dark as in this [report], do you think any people could still survive in Cambodia? The people responsible for the U.N. report should take note of [our] progress and of what needs to be corrected.

A co-interior minister says he knows who killed Funcinpec senior official Ho Sok in July.

We do not have any real information. If we did, no one could avoid being arrested.

Three Funcinpec soldiers who rejoined the army were murdered recently, supposedly for political reasons.

I am investigating the rumors about these deaths. If they have been murdered, we cannot tolerate [this]. There is no order to carry out such an action. People who commit killings, not only against soldiers but any persons, have to be brought to justice.

Is entry into ASEAN still important to you?

After we took note that there was interference in the internal affairs of others, it became my concern, which is now shared by many. We took note of the confusion -- the complicatedness -- within the ASEAN principle of non-interference. So we decided to put it aside, leaving it to ASEAN to reconsider. If they accept us, we will join. If not, we will remain like this. We have never been a member of ASEAN.

So there are more important matters?

Yes. The main problem now is the financial crisis. We in Cambodia are trying hard to maintain political stability, to maintain the economy and curb inflation, to try to handle any impact from the regional crisis and to prepare ourselves for the election.