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CNN LIVE TODAY
Afghan War Rages, Peace Plan Takes Shape
Aired November 29, 2001 - 10:10 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: To front lines now and CNN's Ben Wedeman standing by live in Kabul with the latest there.
Ben, the news is fresh out of Bonn. I'm not sure if you have much more to add at this time, but with regard to the Northern Alliance right now, suggesting that they may be in agreement to allow an international peacekeeping force on the ground there, how significant could that be in Afghanistan?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That, certainly, is one of the key issues that's on the table in Bonn. The situation is that, regarding this multinational peacekeeping force -- we should differentiate that from a U.N. peacekeeping force -- is being pushed by the group around Mohammed Zahir Shah, the former king of Afghanistan. They would like to see this force in place, controlling, in particular, the capital of Kabul. At the moment, Kabul is under the military control as well as political control of the Northern Alliance.
As far as the Northern Alliance's position on that multinational peacekeeping force, they're not quite as enthusiastic as the king's group about that idea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ADULLAH ABDULLAH, NORTHERN ALLIANCE FOREIGN MINISTER: Our position has been that our preference would be an Afghan force, composed of all ethnic groups of course under the Union. This is the preference. But if we have to go for a multinational peacekeeping force, we will consider it positively. If it is needed, if it is required in the light of developments, we will consider it positively. There is no rejection for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WEDEMAN: The latest out of Bonn is that, in fact, the Northern Alliance has dropped its opposition to this idea, so that certainly could move the process ahead.
Otherwise, the delegates in Bonn are busy at the moment trying to work out some sort of power-sharing deal in which a transitional supreme council would be formed. The composition of that is still unclear, but if that issue is resolved as well, in a matter of two days, it would appear they have been able to tackle some of the most important issues facing the delegates in Bonn -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ben Wedeman, from the capital city there, Kabul. Ben, thanks for the update there.
I want to talk about the latest on the military front and bring in Maj. Gen. Don Shepperd, live in Washington.
General, good morning to you.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Morning, Bill.
HEMMER: There is more firepower expected. Tommy Franks says more French jets are on the way, and possibly more U.S. jets as well. But we are being told that two-thirds of these fighter jets are coming back with bombs still intact and on board. Do you reach a point military when the firepower is superfluous and you simply have gone past the point of necessity?
SHEPPERD: You do, Bill. But the military is not an efficiency game when you are in combat. Here is the way it works. Gen. Franks and the people that are prosecuting the air power -- ubiquitous air power -- over the air space, in case targets emerge. The case of Afghanistan, most of the fixed targets that we know about have already been hit. You would normally go into an area, and if you were going to put air cover over it, you would hit a fixed target or provide loiter support and hit a fixed target at the end. But those fixed targets are gone.
So you put air power in these engagement zones, if you will -- formerly called kill boxes -- over the country, and you look for emerging targets.
Let me give you an example. All of a sudden you pop up a target of 70 vehicles, Taliban, heading for Kandahar. You want to hit them. It will takes several airplanes to do it. So better to have them airborne and ready if you need them. On the other hand, if the targets don't emerge, you go home. That's the ROE, the rules you deal with.
HEMMER: When we hear the term "loitering," when jets just hang around and wait, right?
SHEPPERD: Basically, they orbit in the area to be on call for targets that emerge as a result of the Predator or special forces on the ground, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), pop-up-type targets. And if you don't, you bring your bombs home.
HEMMER: General, we have some pictures of Marines on the ground. What, in the near term, is the mission here. It looks like they're building a pit there for a mortar area. Is that about accurate or not?
SHEPPERD: I tell you, the unfortunate thing about the people that do this on the ground, these wonderful people, is the first thing you have to do when you go to a new location is dig a hole. You dig a hole to get in, put guns, put machine guns, you put mortars, to protect yourself. And then, if you move the next day, you dig more holes; that is the life of a soldier on the ground. They are doing self-protection, to make sure that wherever they are, they are defended by themselves for anyone that wants to attack their position. That's your first responsibility.
HEMMER: It looks like this building here is from that airstrip that we saw the Rangers go in about 1 1/2 months ago. I think it was mid-October.
SHEPPERD: It looks like a lot of fighting has been going on here. Those could be bullets, they could be bomb fragments.
HEMMER: Mullah Mohammed Omar is reported to have told his troops to fight until the death. The Pentagon is saying there will be pockets of resistance in Kandahar for quite some time. How do you see this battle shaping up right now? Is this similar to the fortress in Mazar-e Sharif, where you're going to have to go in specifically and keep hitting targets?
SHEPPERD: It is different than Mazar-e Sharif. Basically, Several things can happen in Kandahar. One is that you can have a negotiated settlement in which the city is turned over, much like Konduz. Another is you could have a fight to the death, with a building-to-building fight. We hope that doesn't happen. The other is that you could have these small pockets that you have to dig out, rather than a big battle. The fourth one is the Taliban that are there flee to the mountains to the north.
Of all of those, we hope that there is a surrender, and we hope we capture the Taliban in other way.
HEMMER: Reports say the Northern Alliance may be moving south of Kabul, toward an area called Ghazni Province. Would the U.S. military welcome that presence moving toward the south of Afghanistan?
SHEPPERD: The Northern Alliance is the force in charge of their own forces, and they are going to do what they want. Basically, you are going to see the Pashtuns come from the Herat area to the northwest, towards Kandahar. You have got the Marines to the south. You are likely going to see the Northern Alliance coming from Kabul to the next province, which is Ghazni, where the two American aid workers were recently released -- still under Taliban influence, if not control.
You are going to see a movement of Taliban forces -- lots of tanks, we saw this morning -- from the Northern Alliance moving down as Taliban retreat toward Kandahar. That looks like that is what is shaping, Bill.
HEMMER: General, thank you.
We will talk next hour about your prediction that we talked about a few days ago, that it is still possible that these Taliban and al Qaeda members may have a peaceful transition in the south. We shall see.
General, thanks. Always a pleasure.
For weeks, Afghanistan has been under a global microscope, but for Afgans, their window on the world has long been nailed shut. TVs were unplugged during the Taliban rule.
CNN's Christiane Amanpour shows us how that has changed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The lights are out, cloth covers the windows, and about a dozen people watch closely as a TV flickers on the wall. With all representations of the human form banned under the Taliban, this matinee crowd in Kabul is getting an eyeful.
"Perhaps the Taliban would have given me a severe beating," says Abdullah, who owns this video salon, "and perhaps they would have sent me to jail." That's after smashing his TV.
Instead, today, Abdullah is making a killing, about $10 a day at his storefront video theater.
"They are showing us a very interesting American film, says Heli Lola (ph). He and the others say they are happy, and they like their freedom.
So too at the Kabul TV station. We arrived as engineers were taking their live broadcasting vans out of five years' storage: dusting off the consoles, setting up their cameras, eager to be back on the job after five years in the professional wilderness.
"Today, I'm very lucky that I'm standing behind my camera again," says Fayed Mohamed (ph), to record the smiles of my countrymen, instead of their sorrows.
He and his colleagues show us their Taliban ID cards, when they had to wear turbans and full beards.
"During the Taliban years, we just recorded with our eyes," laughs Inatola (ph).
Technology has passed them by, but they say they can't wait to broadcast again. Music and soccer matches, and even the next Loya Jirga, the grand council they hope will sort out Afghanistan's fractious politics.
Under the Taliban, people who dared own satellite dishes would bring them out secretly at night. Now new ones are being churned out by the day, covered in whatever sheet metal they find. Those who can't afford one make do with an old antenna; anything will do for a city of people eager to catch up on the years they have missed.
TV repair shops are trying to keep up with demand. Some workers remember the times they were hauled off to jail.
Here they tell us the Taliban's favorite punishment for TV watches was painting their faces black, dragging them through the marketplace, and forcing offenders to call themselves criminals.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: A vast world of politics and geography separates Afghanistan from the state of Alabama. Now at least one death serves as a bond between the two. An Alabama native serving in the CIA became the first known American to die in combat there.
Martin Savidge traveled to Mike Spann's hometown, Winfield, Alabama.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the beginning of the holidays, in the middle of a war in the heart of the rural South. The fight in Afghanistan just got personal.
TRACY ESTES, WINFIELD JOURNALIST: And for the first time, Winfield, Alabama, can put a face with this war.
SAVIDGE: Welcome to Winfield, Alabama, the night the war came home. Most in this town of just over 4,000 didn't know 32-year-old Mike Spann was in the CIA, fewer still that he was in a far off place like Mazar-e Sharif.
JOHNNY SPANN, MIKE SPANN'S FATHER: He gave his life in the line of work, in the line of duty.
SAVIDGE: But suddenly a man almost everyone knew by his local real estate business found himself standing in a neighbor's yard talking of a loss no father should have to tell.
J. SPANN: And our family wants the world to know that we are very proud of our son Mike and we consider him a hero.
SAVIDGE: The news of Mike Spann's death traveled fast here, not on radio or television, but by word of mouth, on the telephone, at the restaurant and gas station. His high school football coach got the word at the coffee shop.
JOE HUBBARD, HIGH SCHOOL COACH: And I remember the last time I saw him at church with his two little girls. And I can remember what my daughter said. My daughter is a graduate of the University of Alabama, and she says he's a good looking young man and beautiful children. They was all dressed in white, the children. And a beautiful day.
SAVIDGE: Winfield is the sort of town where flags have always flown, not just put up after September 11. Now those flags have lowered, but the pride has only risen higher. I asked Mike's father if he blamed anyone for his son's death. His answer was short and direct. J. SPANN: Osama bin Laden.
SAVIDGE: Osama bin Laden would have a lot of explaining to do here.
ESTES: Osama bin Laden has started something that America's going to finish. But now Winfield has a personal reason to want to see this score settled.
HUBBARD: You know, I hope he's not around too long, really.
SAVIDGE: Like I said, in Winfield, Alabama, it's now personal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Last night when I was talking to Johnny Spann, Michael Spann's father, I asked a fairly dumb question, which went basically along the lines that the fact that his son was the first to die in combat after this nation had been attacked, whether it brought greater significance to his death. His father paused, and it was clear he really did not answer that. But then looked me dead in the eye, and he said no, that the pain would be just as sharp whether his son was the first or the 50th. But he also said that his son was doing what he wanted to do; he was where he wanted to be. I realized that by his sacrifice I had the freedom to ask that question, even if it wasn't so good.
That's one of the great things about this particular town: People say what they mean, and they mean what they say, and that, they say, was Mike Spann -- Bill.
HEMMER: Marty, thanks.
I heard you ask that question yesterday. I was watching it live. And I didn't think it was that dumb, but I thought the answer was quite curious.
Martin Savidge, in Winfield, thanks.
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