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CNN LIVE TODAY
Testimony is Set to Resume This Hour in Case of Andrea Yates
Aired February 19, 2002 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Up first this hour on CNN, the Texas mom on trial for drowning her own children. Testimony is set to resume this hour in the case of Andrea Yates.
Our Ed Lavandera has been covering the trial. He joins us live now from Houston.
Ed, good morning. Looks like a rainy day there in Houston.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Extremely rainy day.
Testimony is scheduled to begin in about 30 minutes here. Prosecutors and defense attorneys already making their way into the courtroom, as well as Russell Yates' family.
On the witness stand this morning will be one of the police officers, the third officer to arrive at the scene. We heard from the first two yesterday. And much of what they're presenting, if you remember, it is up to the defense in this case to prove that Andrea Yates was insane at the time of the murders.
They must prove that she didn't know right from wrong at the time. Prosecutors using the officers to point out that in her confessions to them yesterday, they testified that Andrea Yates told them that she committed the murders and that she knew she would go to hell for doing this. They also used the officers to talk about her demeanor. They say, the officers say she, that she was looking at them, listening to their questions, and paying attention to what was going on.
On the other hand, defense attorneys suggesting in their cross- examination and in opening statements that Andrea Yates was so mentally ill that on a scale of 1-10, she was off the charts. They are using the officers to point out that for a women who had just drowned her five kids, that she was extremely catatonic, just sitting there looking straight ahead blankly into the area around her. They're also using the officers to describe the scene that they described. Obviously, the emotional part of this trial, to describe to the jury the scene that the first officer arrived, discovered the four bodies on the bed in the master bedroom laying side by side. It was the second officer who came into the house who discovered the fifth child, 7-year-old Noah, face down in the bathtub. And more of that testimony at some point today. We're also expecting to maybe hear evidence that the officer who shot videotape inside the house the morning of the crime scene, they are suggesting that they might playing that for the jury, which as you know, Daryn, will be an incredible contrast to the video images that Russell Yates want the world to see of Andrea Yates, a loving mother who made beautiful birthday cakes for their children.
Daryn, back to you.
KAGAN: This will be somewhere down the line in the trial, but isn't Rusty Yates himself planning on taking the stand in his wife's defense?
LAVANDERA: He has been subpoena by the defense in this case, not by the prosecution, and because of that, since he is a witness, he is not allowed to listen to testimony inside the courtroom. And the Yates' family is upset by all of this. They say that they're also victims in this case, and they should be allowed to be inside of the courtroom. That's one of the issues that's playing itself outside of this trial and might have some development on that later on as well.
KAGAN: All right, we will check back with you. Ed Lavandera in Houston, thank you very much. Let's look at what we've seen so far in the trial after one day.
Joining us now with some insights into the Yates trial, and some analysis of the case so far, two legal experts. They were with us yesterday as well, former federal prosecutor Cynthia Alksne, in our Washington bureau this morning, and attorney-psychologist Robert Gordon joining us from Houston.
Poor Robert, stuck in the rain there.
Good morning to both of you.
ROBERT GORDON, ATTORNEY-PSYCHOLOGIST: Good morning.
KAGAN: I know you're listening in with the opening statements yesterday. I want to pick some key points, and we gave you each a homework assignment in picking out soundbites from each -- from the defense and the prosecution. So let's go to those.
Robert, we'll start with yours first. First to the prosecution.
Let's listen to the soundbite that Robert picked, that he thought was key.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Ray Holz (ph) has tested Andrea Yates for days and weeks with every available test at his command. He will tell this jury that among other things, that in his opinion, she not only did not know on June 20th the 20th, what she was doing was wrong, but believed it was right.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KAGAN: And here comes the key of the case, not whether or not Andrea Yates did indeed drown her five children in the family's bathtub, but whether or not she knew it was wrong.
Is that why you picked that bite, Robert?
GORDON: Absolutely. The key for the prosecution is to say that she understood the wrongfulness of her conduct, and that her behavior indicates the mental status. The defense on the other hand wants to suggest that the mental state, rather than the behavior is the most important thing.
KAGAN: Let's listen to the soundbite that Cynthia picked from the prosecution's opening statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We anticipate that you will be -- that you will hear that her motive was altruistic. The children were not developing correctly, and she was a bad mother and needed to be punished, that this is not a motive like robbery or theft. It is an altruistic motive, meaning that she thought it was right and good to do this to these children, that that was a right thing. You also hear evidence that should she know it was an illegal thing, that it was a sin, that it was wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Cynthia, why is that the bite that you picked?
CYNTHIA ALKSNE, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I'm not sure it is.
KAGAN: OK, I think we are a little bit mixed up on our soundbites, but go ahead.
ALKSNE: That's all. The important thing is that the prosecution is trying to counter what the obvious defense is, which is that she knew right from wrong, and she he listed things in the course of his opening statement that demonstrates that she knew right from wrong, that she spoke to the police, that she said she was going to go to hell, that she needed to be punished, and that she called the police, and these types of things, and that has to be the strength of the prosecution.
I do think there is a weakness in the prosecution in the opening that concerns me, and that is that they didn't really head on deal with the psychiatric testimony, and they need to do that in the course of the trial.
KAGAN: Why do you think they didn't?
ALKSNE: Well, it's not enough just to dismiss it and say we don't have the burden of proof on that. Juries don't like that. They don't like it when defense attorneys lean on burden of proof, and they don't like it when prosecutors do it, as if it's not their responsibility. The prosecutor must present and aggressively demonstrate to the jury that even though she had a mental illness, there's a lot of people with mental illness and they don't drown their children, and there a lot of people who have mental illness and don't know right from wrong. The prosecutor must demonstrate that she is one of those people in order to get a guilty conviction.
KAGAN: And, Cynthia, you made a point about lists, and each side did use lists. On the defense side, they lists the name of the doctors and all the medication that Andrea Yates has been treated by, and has been taking over the years, but on the prosecution side, I thought the list that was most key was listing each child's name one by one, putting faces with these children victims, and not just saying the five Yates' kids and making them a group. I think it really brings it home by listing these five children and their names.
ALKSNE: Right. And all the other details that he gave to bring the children to life, what they were wearing, the fact their cereal was still there, and painting a picture in the house. And of course that's what the prosecution is going to try to do even more today with this videotape of the crime scene. So that it isn't just some -- anonymous, unknown...
KAGAN: Group of kids.
ALKSNE: These are live children, and to really bring that home.
KAGAN: Prosecution is going to try to make sure that this jury knows each of these kids by face and by name before this is over.
Robert, as Cynthia was mentioning and Ed Lavandera earlier, we are going to hear more from the officers that were first to the scene, and not only their pictures, but their chilling testimony. We heard some of that yesterday, with officer Knapp saying when he asked Andrea Yates, why did you call us here, she just looked in the face and said, "I killed my kids."
GORDON: It just absolutely indicates a sense of rationality and a sense of presence of mind that goes well beyond electroshock treatments or any Haldol (ph) or psychotropic medication. It's literally storming here in Houston, outside, as well as inside the courtroom.
KAGAN: Cynthia, you were critical of the prosecution's opening statement. Any criticism of the defense so far?
ALKSNE: Well, I thought the defense did something interesting, that they said she was under a delusion at the time of the murder and didn't tell us what the delusion is. Now that's a gamble. It's a gamble that the jurors will wait to hear about that delusion and not make up their minds. It's a pretty big gamble.
KAGAN: Well, is that your way of saying like TBA, to be announced later, and that they had better come up with something and better deliver.
ALKSNE: Well, they better deliver. But more than that, jurors make up their mind earlier in the case, and if you wait and hold things out, sometimes you've got a problem.
The other thing they didn't do, which I'm critical of, is they didn't really deal with her statements and on that date. They just sort of to be announced, as you described it. They didn't deal with the statement that she planned the murder and that she waited for her husband to leave, and hurried before her mother-in-law got there, and told the police that she was going to help. They didn't deal with that. And I don't think, even though, they talked about the murders, because they used this sort of passive voice and language, they didn't appropriately demonstrate her sorrow for the death of her children, and they have to do that.
I thought it was interesting that instead of saying, "And then she killed her children," or being direct about it, they were sort of -- and then the inevitable happened, and then the events transpired.
KAGAN: Right, let's get Robert in here. He's standing out in the rain. I got to get him in here once again.
ALKSNE: When it rains in Houston it's not fooling around.
KAGAN: No, it is serious business.
I just want to hear your quick criticism of the defense and the prosecution opening statements.
GORDON: Well, I'm standing in the rain not singing in the rain. The defense did a valiant job of trying to underscore the psychopathology and mental illness that she had, but I agree with Cynthia that they weren't specific enough, and they also didn't answer the question, how she could have said to the police officers she'd been contemplating this for two years.
At the same time, I think Cynthia's insight is a good one, but the prosecution could have been more specific also, and talked not so much about the presumption but the fact we have to focus upon the behavior, and not the mental state, which is inferred from the behavior. The state was able to say that she was calm, cool and collected, and that was very powerful.
KAGAN: Not only rainstorms, but busses to compete with out there.
Robert Gordon in Houston, we'll let you get in and out of the rain and check out the trial from inside.
Cynthia Alksne, thanks for joining us as well. We appreciate both of your insights this morning.
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